Question:

A the cure for everyone, but if a good Rolfer is accessible to you, it may A be worth doing before going into surgery or heavy drugs like cortizone. Trouble is I don’t know what it is. As I have had similar problems could you explain a bit more? Cheers, Henry – via BulkRate 2.0

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Re: questions about what rolfing is, how much it costs, how to find it It’s a little hard for me to tell you what Rolfing is, but it feels like an extremely deep massage. My experience of it was rather like as massage is to muscles, rolfing is to bones. (That’s not really true, but it’s what it feels like.) Some people say its very painful, I understand what they mean but I found it a rather pleasurable kind of pain, like a message, with a certain pleasure in FEELING that the muscles and bones were getting straightened out. As all parts of the body are related, the traditional (and it seemed to me, logical) way to go about it is a series of 10 sessions, although I asked my rolfer to emphasize the shoulder that was frozen, he insisted, and I think rightly so, that my whole body be dealt with as well. As I recall the 10 sessions were $100 each, that was a few years ago, but it was NYC and that’s usually more expensive on everything. For Rolfers in your part of the country, as well as a much more scientific explanation of the procedure, and other information call the Rolf Institute, in Boulder CO: 800/ 530-8875. As I understand it, all Rolfers are trained there, and while they are a smallish group, I suspect they are spread all over the country. A friend of mine was in touch with them at one point with the thought of being trained, and while she didn’t do it, I remember being very impressed with the quality of their thinking about training, requirements, and so on. It felt like a really good organization. Hope it helps you.

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Out of desperation, I went to the library to look up info about cortisone.  So I found out by myself what was happening.

I had (still have) tendonitis/bursitis at times so bad that I can’t lift a soda can by covering the top with my palm and lifting up. That cortisone shot I had for that was THE most painful experience I’ve ever had. But it didn’t affect my bG. However, I had successfully used prednisone for some allergy problems in the past. 4 years ago I was given a round of that drug and ended up urinating all night long! Does that to new (read unknowing) diabetics. The PDR revealed the problem there. — Chuck Cronan from Milwaukee

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re: various proposals for treating frozen shoulder I had a frozen shoulder with great pain and immobility for several years during which I tried a lot of medical stuff, but it ended with 10 Rolfing sessions, and I haven’t had any pain or immobility since. It may not be the cure for everyone, but if a good Rolfer is accessible to you, it may be worth doing before going into surgery or heavy drugs like cortizone.

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I have had surgery on both shoulders – the right one 4 years ago, and the left just last year.  The right is completely healed, the left is progressing slowly.

I too have both shoulders frozen…  Gawd, it can be a pain… By the way – I also went through a lot of therapy before the surgery – also to no avail.  My brother, also a diabetic, had the same problem and his went away with therapy – after about a year to a year and a half.

I went through three months of physio every second day on my right shoulder.  The physio-terrorist <s was suprised that my range of motion was backwards to most people with this problem.  While lying on my back, my are would go up to lie almost flat on the bed next to my head, but I could barely get it to move down towards my hip. Anyways….  After the three months of little improvement…. One last side note.  During one of my bouts the doctor talked me into a shot of cortisone, assuring me that it would not effect my diabetes. Well my blood sugar went through the roof, and even though most orthopedists deny a relationship between the cortisone and high blood sugar – be very careful.  If he does resort to cortisone – keep a close eye on glucose levels.

I had a procedure done that was to inject saline solution into the joint in an effort to unstick the joint.  The doc added some cortisone to the shot.  My right shoulder now has about 80% of motion.  We haven’t tried anything on the left one yet.  My blood sugars remained normal before, during and after the corisone shot. Interesting side note about the shot though…  My should was soooo tight… <How tight was it???? that when the doc started injecting the saline, and went for another syringe full, everything that was in the joint shot right back out the needle and covered him, me, and the nurse… It was hilarious…..  Well, I guess you had to be there…. — Mark C. Barron

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Several posters within the year described spontaneous remissions of this condition.  Perhaps it’s in the FAQ.  I would not go into’ surgery until I had heard from those folks.  Could one of the Wise Persons comment on this?  Might save this person some useless agony.  Lydick? Reid? Garcia?  Where are these folks when you need them?

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I had shoulder problems also which lasted about 1.5 years. This was treated by a chiropractor – until my insurance coverage ran out for the year.  At that point, he ‘referred’ me to specialist in sports medicine.  (I didn’t know that being a couch potato is considered a sport!)   He put me on a perscription (a muscle relaxant) which did nothing. He then recommended a shot of cortisone.  I wasn’t aware of the effect on BGs, but I sure am now!  It was one of the most difficult times I’ve ever had managing my DM. Out of desperation, I went to the library to look up info about cortisone.  So I found out by myself what was happening. When I mentioned it to the specialist, he shrugged and said that "yeah, that can happen".  THANKS!!! I found no relief from the cortisone, but avoided the recommendation for surgery.  The pain finally went away (probably because the chiropractor wasn’t yanking on me anymore!).  I now have no pain and full range of motion. At no time did either the chiropractor or the specialist indicate that the shoulder problem could be related to DM. It wasn’t until I got involved with this group that I learned more about it.  Even my endo didn’t seem to know about or comment on the relationship of shoulder problems and DM. Good luck to you.

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anyone have any experience with this surgery?  any advice?  – Thanks!

Hi! i don’t have the experience but some i know has.  Her shoulder was froze for a long time before she went to the dr.  The Dr. asked her to come to treatment twice a week.  the first 6 months she felt like it wasn’t working.   The Dr. put her on small dose of cortizone.  And she continued to see the Dr. twicwe a week.  After 8 months total her shoulder feel much better.   She tries to swim once a week plus the treatmnts.  Its not 100% but it took  may years for her to develope it.   Keep in mind if he wants surgery it may take more work than it takes now.  and as you said no saying if it will help.  

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my husabnd, who is diabetic, has been doing physical therapy for the last two months for a frozen shoulder with very little success, and has recently been considering surgery — no guarantees as to whether it will be successful either anyone have any experience with this surgery?  any advice?  – Thanks!

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my husabnd, who is diabetic, has been doing physical therapy for the last two months for a frozen shoulder with very little success, and has recently been considering surgery — no guarantees as to whether it will be successful either anyone have any experience with this surgery?  any advice?  – Thanks!

I have had surgery on both shoulders – the right one 4 years ago, and the left just last year.  The right is completely healed, the left is progressing slowly.  In addition to frozen shoulder, or adhesive encapsulitis (I can’t begin to spell any medical terms correctly) I had an impengement syndrome – resulting in tendonitis.  In the impengment syndrome, the acromium and the shoulder joint don’t allow enough space for one of the tendons to pass through.  The tendon gets inflamed, swells and the whole problem is exacerbated.  In my surgery, they removed part of the acromium, cleaned up some bone spurs and tried to increase the range of motion.  My experience has been that it takes a long time to recover from the surgery – on the order of a year to really get full range of motion. By the way – I also went through a lot of therapy before the surgery – also to no avail.  My brother, also a diabetic, had the same problem and his went away with therapy – after about a year to a year and a half. One last side note.  During one of my bouts the doctor talked me into a shot of cortisone, assuring me that it would not effect my diabetes. Well my blood sugar went through the roof, and even though most orthopedists deny a relationship between the cortisone and high blood sugar – be very careful.  If he does resort to cortisone – keep a close eye on glucose levels. Patrick

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I’m a diabetic and I’ve had frozen shoulder for almost the last 2 years. It’s caused by some type of inflamation that gets worse generally caused by some kind of blood restriction.  I have a theory that cholesteral in one of the culprits because about 8 months after I got it I had 5 bypass heart surgery. Cholesterol can somehow clog up these small arterries and the blood become restricted with the smallest irratation or inflamation. You will need to go to physical therapy and may ultimately need surgery. It takes 1 to 2 years to thaw. Be patient – that’s all you can do. I hate getting older – I was 48 when it was diagnosed.

I had frozen ELBOW (same thing, different location) and had a cortizone jab and it was GONE in 2 weeks. Watching that needle go in the joint wasn’t the most pleasant thing I’ve seen, but it was WELL worth it. (It didn’t hurt anyway:-) Beav — E-mail me if you feel the desire at the usual place Beavis at nachos dot demon dot co dot  uk (No xxx’s) You can even visit my website at WWW.nachos.demon.co.uk

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My wife is Type 1 diabetic and has had frozen shoulder.  Adhesive capsulitis is the more formal term.  After much pain and restriction of motion, she had a manipulation under general anesthesia (see more on this at the link below).  She then had to do a series of exercises for several months to regain most of her previous range of motion. Unfortunately, her other shoulder is starting to tighten up. Below is a very informative set of pages on frozen shoulder along with suggested exercises.  http://www.orthop.washington.edu/Bone%20and%20Joint%20Sources/zrszezz… Also, there is a new enzyme injection therapy using COLLAGENASE being tested at SUNY – Stonybrook for the treatment of Dupuytrens Contracture – a hand condition that has some similarities to frozen shoulder.  My wife is also suffering from this.  This condition is not exclusive to diabetics, but diabetics appear to make up a sizeable proportion of DC patients.  I emailed the company that makes collagenase about the possible use for frozen shoulder.  I got a response that they are looking into it, but they have not reached the point of setting up human trials. The company’s site is:   http://www.biospecifics.com/ Roger Winsby

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I’m a diabetic and I’ve had frozen shoulder for almost the last 2 years. It’s caused by some type of inflamation that gets worse generally caused by some kind of blood restriction.  I have a theory that cholesteral in one of the culprits because about 8 months after I got it I had 5 bypass heart surgery. Cholesterol can somehow clog up these small arterries and the blood become restricted with the smallest irratation or inflamation. You will need to go to physical therapy and may ultimately need surgery. It takes 1 to 2 years to thaw. Be patient – that’s all you can do. I hate getting older – I was 48 when it was diagnosed.

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. Hi, I’m Norman, and this is my first posing to this newsgroup.

I’m not diabetic, but I am suffering from a frozen shoulder, three months into it. Since this is classed as a mystery illness, and I’m trying to break the mystery, perhaps you could share your thoughts on the causes of frozen shoulder. My first, small shoulder pain occurred immediately after my doctor had taken blood from just below the inside of my right elbow. At this time, I also developed a pain in my left calf, which was painful enough to prevent my standing on it for more than twenty seconds at a time. I put this down to sciatica, although the pain was coming almost completely from my calf. With some osteopathy, the pain disappeared in about four weeks. During this time I started getting sharp pains down my right arm, from my shoulder,  sometimes when I stretched, especially combined with pulling. (eg. closing a window) This progresses to getting sever pains every time I jolted my body or made a quick movement, and loss of mobility. I have been diagnosed as having a frozen shoulder, and have had a cortisone injection and some chirotherapy, but with little effect. My problems MAY have started with the blood test. I believe diabetics have frequent blood tests, and are more prone to this illness, than any others. My colleague has the same problem and is a regular blood donor. I believe this problem is more likely to occur in the non-dominant shoulder. Is my blood test just a coincidence, or is there more to it? Please let me have your thoughts. Thanks. Best wishes, Norman

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Your message caught my eye.  Maybe u can help me.  I am 55yo male  & have been insulin dependent for 12years.  I am suffering from a MOST painful frozen sholuder since June.  Have been to 2 ortho. docs., 2 physical therapists, a new endocrin. doc & am still miserable…so much constant pain.  No one locally (New Orleans) appears to understand connection bet. shoulder & diabetes. Doc wants to now surgically stretch it.  I refuse.  Please help, I would be most grateful.

I have had it for more than a year constant pain is gone, but extremely limited movement after reading this NG and experimenting I think the go to sleep and have the therapist TEAR the lesions seems the least intrusive and effective. I also dislike surgery but to relieve the pain and suffer worse for 2-4 days I like the trade-off. I actually have my full grown daughter stand on my shoulder blades (while I lay on my face) to force the movement. I can’t play baseball left handed yet but it gets better little by little and the range of motion is coming back I have no coverage for physical therapy Doug

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Dear Meyer, It is not uncommon to have some residual pain on some movements of the shoulder after frozen shoulder. I have treated several frozen shoulders with good to average results. (I am a chiropractor with type1 diabetes) Some chiropractors will do very little soft tissue or peripheral joint manipulation (joints other than the spine), so if you do seek an opinion from a chiropractor, make sure that they do incorporate a fair amount of soft tissue work in their treatment. If you are interested in more information on how it develops or on its treatment from a chiropractor’s view, I can supply more information. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Meyer, You are not alone.  I developed frozen shoulder on both sides within 3 years of one another.  I had intensive physical therapy on the first one, with significant, but not complete recovery of range of motion.  Although both sides have improved somewhat, each after 3 years duration, I have some residual pain and some restriction of motion.  I have been on insulin for 40 years now, past 3 years on a pump.  Feel free to e-mail me if you wish to exchange more info. Best Wishes.

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Your message caught my eye.  Maybe u can help me.  I am 55yo male  & have been insulin dependent for 12years.  I am suffering from a MOST painful frozen sholuder since June.  Have been to 2 ortho. docs., 2 physical therapists, a new endocrin. doc & am still miserable…so much constant pain.  No one locally (New Orleans) appears to understand connection bet. shoulder & diabetes.  Doc wants to now surgically stretch it.  I refuse.  Please help, I would be most grateful.

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i’m a type 1 on insulin for 42 years. have frozen shoulder for about a year. last january started physical therapy after 2 shots of cortisone did nothing. was making progress until health insurance cut me off in april 98. fought them and recently resumed therapy. my range of motion deteriorated alot during the april – september no physical therapy period. i’ve read that this gets better in 2 years.  does that mean without treatment??  without treatment i get worse. i am fairly active.  i bike 20+ miles at a time every week in decent weather. meyer

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Dear Meyer, You are not alone.  I developed frozen shoulder on both sides within 3 years of one another.  I had intensive physical therapy on the first one, with significant, but not complete recovery of range of motion.  Although both sides have improved somewhat, each after 3 years duration, I have some residual pain and some restriction of motion.  I have been on insulin for 40 years now, past 3 years on a pump.  Feel free to e-mail me if you wish to exchange more info. Best Wishes.

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